In the age of slop, craft is rebellion
The Craft 001: A conversation about craft, code, and creative freedom with indie game artisan Neal Agarwal, creator of Neal.fun.
A while back, I said I’d be experimenting with new ways to share what I’m thinking about, what I’m tinkering with, and conversations I’m having.
I’ve also been thinking a lot about what makes creation meaningful, and I’ve landed on a timely thesis: In the age of slop, craft is rebellion.
This series, The Craft, is a multi-format experiment I’m hosting here, all about the art of making things, and what makes the maker, too.
I recently grabbed coffee with Neal Agarwal, the indie game artisan behind Neal.fun, a cult-favorite corner of the internet home to weird, delightful, wildly viral games like The Password Game and Infinite Craft.
Neal is a quiet legend in the indie game world. He’s made the web his canvas for playable art and joyful mischief — a kind of one-man artisanal rebellion against the slopification of everything. I’ve long admired how he’s carved a beloved niche, stayed independent, profitable, and rooted in craft — all while reaching millions.
We covered a lot — and Neal asked me a few questions too.
Some hot topics from our conversation:
Making 100 games before turning 20
His one and only job — at MSCHF
Why he went indie to build Neal.fun
The rise of AI and “vibe coding”
How LLMs powered Infinite Craft
Viral hits and artistic freedom
Staying creatively energized (for years)
Extended Cut: favorite games, the slopification of everything, LLMs for writing, chatbot kids, new religion, & more.
This conversation has been edited & condensed for clarity. (P.S. No LLMs were used in the placement of em dashes.)
A terminally online playground.
“I made my first website when I was 10. From 10 to 20, I probably made 100 games.”
Let’s talk about the beginnings of what many people know you for: games. When did you first start making games, and how?
I was very terminally online as a kid. Most of my friends were online too. So I just got sucked into different forums centered around making games.
I made my first website when I was about 10 using Microsoft Frontpage, it was a collection of links to my favorite flash games I played in school. I started making my own games when I found Scratch, and that was my first real foray into programming and making something and putting it out into the world.
The first game I ever made was based on the British TV show Wipeout. It was a platformer where each level was an obstacle course. The game is actually still up here! I love that kids are still commenting on it (“this is a great game! But what would make it even better is the OG Wipeout music.”)
How many games do you think you made in that 10-year span?
They were all really small games, and not that great, but probably about 100.
That’s a lot! Did those early games show enough promise or give you some other sign to keep making games?
They did, it felt really good having people play my games even if it was just other 12-year olds. I also spent more time learning how to make websites. Pretty quickly I realized that I wanted my own home on the internet.
As a teenager I started getting really into data visualizations. I made one called everysecond.io, which tracked how many iPhones, iPads, etc. Apple sold. It was my first website to gain some traction. A couple media outlets wrote about it, and I remember thinking, “Oh, that’s cool.” In high school, I made another site called kamogo.com, a mix between XKCD and the stuff I do now. I called them interactive comics because the jokes were in the UI interactions.
Looking back, it was the same ethos as The Password Game: the UI itself as a medium for telling jokes. There were lots of other blogs/comic sites I loved, like The Oatmeal and Wait But Why. I spent most of school daydreaming about side projects. I knew I wanted to be making stuff on the web.
The origin story of Neal.fun.
“My parents were like, you’ve got to stop buying these domains because it’s adding up every year. So, I bought Neal.fun and decided to just put everything there.”
You studied computer science in college — did it help at all, or were you already capable and set on building your own things?
Studying computer science in college isn’t a very creative endeavor. So it helped in the sense that I disliked college so much that I needed to go soul searching. Sophomore year I was at a pretty low point. Programming had been my escape, but in college I started falling out of love with it because now it was school work. I felt like now I didn’t even have that to fall back on. I felt an overwhelming urge to create something of my own.
Each side project I made up to that point had a different domain. I don’t know how many domains I had, but it was way too many. Eventually, my parents were like, you’ve got to stop buying these domains because it’s adding up every year. So I bought Neal.fun and just put everything there. That’s when my projects really started gaining traction because now everything was in one place.
Amazingly astute parents. How long has Neal.fun been up now?
About 8 years. I started it when I was 19.
Almost everything I’ve made since is on the site.
Is there anything you’ve made that you’ve taken down?
Quite a bit actually. People get mad at me for it. One of the challenges is that things on the web tend to rot over time, links and dependencies break, and so having this many active projects requires ongoing maintenance. The site has also been migrated a few times, and each time I have to decide if I want to port everything over.
Some stuff I’ve made is also probably a little embarrassing to me now. In the early days, I had no idea how many eyes would be on the projects. It’s a tough balance because my bar for quality has gotten higher, and I don’t want people to be disappointed by old projects that aren’t as good.
But also, I kinda see Neal.fun as a lifelong journal, and maybe it’s nice that someday I can look back at old projects and see what was on my mind at that point, even if it’s a little cringey and broken.
You’re known for your website, but how many mobile games have you released?
I made a few mobile apps when I was a teenager, but something about needing Apple or Google's approval for everything makes it a lot less fun. The stuff I make also pokes fun at things. I made one called Design The Next iPhone that makes fun of Apple, and there's no way they’d have let me put that on the App Store. So I always felt more drawn to websites. I like that I don’t need anyone else’s permission to make a web page. [Note: Infinite Craft is now on mobile!]
The coolest first and last job ever.
“I spent most of my childhood trying to mess with adults, and my first job was doing basically the same thing. It made the angsty-teenage side of me very happy.”
And you did graduate college. Have you ever had a true “job?”
Yeah, one job at a company called MSCHF. I joined as a programmer. Every MSCHF drop needed its own website, so I worked across a lot of projects. Sometimes the website itself was the drop.
How’d you find that experience? Even within startups, it’s very unorthodox — I’d say more like a modern art collective.
It was honestly a great fit for me, probably one of few jobs I could hold down. It was never boring, every month you were working on something different and completely insane. You would get a slack DM like, hey we’re gonna make a gun buyback program where we take your gun and melt it down to a sword, can you make a website for that. I loved how MSCHF saw the web like a creative medium like I did. I also thought it was funny that I spent most of my childhood trying to mess with adults, and now my first job was doing basically the same thing. It made the angsty-teenage side of me very happy.
How long were you there, and which drops did you work on? Any favorites? I know they’ve focused more on sneakers lately.
For about a year and a half. I worked on about a third of drops while there, and the sneaker websites too. I’m really fond of tontine.cash, a graveyard game where you have to keep logging in every day to win the grand prize, and Deep Fried Web, a chrome extension that just deep fried every website.
I assume you were still building your own games while you were there? And why did you ultimately decide to leave?
Yeah, I was still making things for neal.fun but a lot slower. I started feeling the same thing as in college, that I really want to make something of my own. Even though I loved the projects at MSCHF, it’s really hard to beat the feeling of working on something for yourself. I just go back to seeing programming as a form of self-expression, I really want to express my own ideas.
Inside the one-man studio.
“I find that alternating between periods of rest and periods of intense obsession is my natural way of working.”
How do you balance the creative experience you want to offer with the technical challenges of game design?
It changes per project, but it’s a constant balancing act. I have ideas that would be really cool, but not technically feasible. And I have ideas that would be technically cool, but not fun from a gameplay perspective. Finding the intersection between them is what I spend a lot of time thinking about.
Are you always working on new things? How many right now?
Yep. Right now I have three to five that I'm thinking about. Up until last year, I would only work on one project at a time, but the projects have slowly been getting bigger, so it makes sense to plan a bit more ahead.
How many people work with you on Neal.fun?
I’m the only full-time person, but I work with freelancers and friends based on what each project needs. For an upcoming project, I’m trying to find someone who can make highly detailed biological illustrations, for example. It’s been really fun working with people with completely different skillsets. Most of the illustrations on the site are still mine, though I’m definitely no illustrator.
And what does a typical day look like for you?
Very freeform. Unsurprisingly I’ve never been good at keeping to a strict schedule. It really depends on where I am in the current project lifecycle.
If I’m in the ideation phase, then my days are more loose and casual. When I’m nearing the end of a project, I’m probably working late and on weekends. I find that alternating between periods of rest and periods of intense obsession is my natural way of working. I like coworking with friends too. It’s nice to have other people to bounce ideas off of, especially when you generally work alone.
Inventing new genres with AI.
“I think what’s happened with AI is, instead of the gains being that I’m faster, it’s that the scope of my projects has gotten bigger … the thing that excites me about AI is when you can make something you couldn’t make before.”
There’s been an explosion of AI tools that let anyone create without coding, or help developers move faster. Which AI tools are you using, and how have they changed your process?
I’ve started playing with Cursor. I think what’s happened with AI is, instead of the gains being that I’m faster, it’s that the scope of my projects has gotten bigger. It allows me to get past the boilerplate code a lot quicker, so I’m free to think a little bigger too.
There’s a lot of hype on “vibe coding” — building with intuition, prompts, and taste — and specifically making games. What do you make of all this?
For me, making games is about creative expression. I want to try to add something new and interesting to the world. AI tools are cool, but I’m not as interested in just making things cheaper and faster. The thing that excites me more about AI is when you can make something you couldn’t make before. Like with Infinite Craft — there were obviously crafting games before, but the only way to make it truly endless is with AI.
You started making your viral game, Infinite Craft, just as LLMs went mainstream. How was your approach different with AI?
It was a very different experience than any other game I’ve made. With Infinite Craft, you're not coding traditional gameplay — you're designing a prompt. And at the end of the day, you don’t have full control. I went through a hundred different prompts, and each one subtly changed the game in ways that were hard to predict. Ultimately, the LLM decides how the game plays out. My job is to find the best prompt. It’s not a science; it’s much more like alchemy.
With most other games I’ve made, I generally have a good sense of how people will interact with them. But with Infinite Craft, the things people were doing were so unexpected. Part of the Discord community started crafting words in Japanese, then playing the whole game in Japanese. Before, no one could unexpectedly unlock a new language in your video game. That's kind of crazy. I felt like I was exploring the game along with everyone else.
Do you think any of your qualms about AI’s speed or automation have to do with the competitive environment — that this wave of progress means having to stand out in even more noise?
Hmm potentially, it’s hard to know. But I do think it might actually have the opposite effect. In a world of AI slop, something hand-crafted and made with care stands out like a sore thumb. It’s like seeing a home-cooked meal on the McDonald’s menu. It might actually be easier to stand out in that world.
How do you see AI shaping the future of indie game development? What’s your working theory — will it democratize game creation and expand the field, or just become another tool for mainstream developers and big studios?
I think the best-case scenario is that it leads to cool new game genres.
I would’ve loved having dynamic conversations with NPCs in Skyrim, for example. That’s the part of AI that’s most interesting to me — I’m always drawn to the question of what’s possible now that wasn’t before.
I think it’s also clear that AI could cause harm. The game industry already has a lot of issues, and it’s not hard to imagine companies just using AI to replace people, making it even harder for people to make a living doing this kind of work. That’s why it feels a bit weird calling this “democratization.” I was making games as a kid, it’s been really accessible for a long time.
Sometimes I think we’re talking about two different things. AI will make it easier to make all forms of entertainment. But art, to me, has always been about human connection. Nothing describes the ethos of Silicon Valley more than the idea that we should make human connection faster and cheaper.
How to win the creative lottery.
“My metric for a successful project is about standing the test of time. What would make me most happy is if there’s someone playing my games 50 years from now.”
What’s your experience like when a game goes viral?
It’s always cool when something goes viral, it does give you that bump of adrenaline, but it’s not really something I like to chase.
I think my metric for a successful project is more about standing the test of time. What would make me most happy is if there’s someone playing my games 50 years from now, to me that’s real resonance.
I just read a book called Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman, about how TV actually probably did rot our brains. I really liked your essay on making “heavy things” — that’s something I’ve been thinking about too.
How do you think about measuring success, especially when staying independent is part of the goal? It’s the classic creative tension of balancing authentic work with sustainable business.
It’s definitely a balancing act! I want the site to do well enough to stay independent, but I also don’t want to cram the site with too many ads. Also I want to keep working on projects that excite me, even when they aren’t super profitable. Diversifying the revenue streams has been really important for keeping it sustainable.
The main thing for me is trying to stay in the middle of that ikigai circle. I want the site to grow, but never at the expense of me enjoying what I’m doing. If that means the site doesn’t grow as fast, that's perfectly fine by me.
And what does financial success or stability look like for you?
I like to think of success as being able to do what I love for a living.
There’s a really cheesy Walt Disney quote that I love, “We don't make movies to make money, we make money to make more movies”. I try really hard not to lose sight of that. I see creators sometimes find their dream jobs, and then slowly degrade it in the pursuit of more money. It feels like a trap.
As long as I’m able to keep working on my silly projects, I’m happy.
What do you think separates financially successful indie creators from the rest? Is it goals, the kinds of projects they take on, just luck, or something else?
Easy, you need to win the lottery. (Narrator: this is worth the watch, start at 10:15 if you want to skip the long but charming metaphor. The short answer: take more shots).
I imagine investors reach out all the time. What’s stopped you from going that route?
Creative freedom is the thing I love the most about being an independent creator. I want to follow my curiosity wherever it goes, even if it’s not the most profitable. If I find a way in the future to have both, I may take a look, but generally I’m skeptical.
Planting seeds over plotting stories.
“Burnout isn’t the enemy, it’s just the messenger. The best thing you can do is just slow down and listen to the message.”
Big question — what do the next 5 years look like for you?
Oh man. I don't even know what my next month will look like. Have you seen George R. R. Martin's interview where he talks about architects vs. gardeners?
Basically, there are authors who outline their entire book before writing the first chapter, and there are others who just let the story play out however it does while writing. I’m definitely in the “gardener” group. Even with projects, I have the seed for an idea, but I have no idea where it's gonna go. I generally know the next project, but the one after that, no clue. Same with my life.
What are you working on right now, and what’s next?
Right now I’m working on a sequel to the password game that will be about captchas. After that, I kind of want to make something paid, even if it’s just a $3 downloadable thing, potentially a foray into a desktop application.
You’ve been running Neal.fun for years with no plans to stop. What’s the key to sustaining creative energy for so long?
What really helps as a creative is realizing that not all days are going to be equally productive. There’s times when I’m going to be prolific, and there’s times when not much is going to be happening. Trying to force or shame each day into being productive isn’t helpful, and often just makes things worse.
When I do feel burned out, it’s usually a sign that something’s off with how I’m spending my time and energy. That’s an important signal to listen to. Your body is telling you something is wrong, it’s trying to help you avoid spending a life on things you don’t enjoy. Burnout isn’t the enemy, it’s just the messenger.
I think a lot of people make the mistake of immediately fighting to get rid of this feeling, and as with any negative emotion, that just makes it worse. The best thing you can do is just slow down and listen to the message for a bit.
You can find Neal on X (Twitter), his personal website, at his home on the web, Neal.fun. Check out his latest release, Stimulation Clicker, and the mobile version of his viral hit, Infinite Craft, on iOS and Android.
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